Comments on: Patrick Bond: carbon trading is a scam

By: alleman

alleman — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:05:08 +0000

Patrick did I offer a critique? It was more a question, I’d say. A question that remains unanswered.

By: Patrick Bond

Patrick Bond — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:00:09 +0000

I’d be happy to send along my book Unsustainable South Africa as a .doc file (just write me at pbond@mail.ngo.za), because it goes through in detail what should have been done with the Coega space north of PE, rather than planning a smelter, container terminal and Export Processing Zone for it. As for what should be done across SA, anyone have a problem with the Reconstruction and Development Programme? In drafting most of that document, and doing the formal audit of it in 1999 for the ANC National Executive Committee, I was alerted to all the ways that a radical strategy to meet basic needs could replace the current approach: Western consumerism based on a vast infusion of consumer credit (at historically very high interest rates), speculative bubbles in real estate and JSE shares, huge outflows of profits/dividends to the financial hq’s of Anglo and the other large offshore firms, mass imports from E.Asia, and the need to export that together are now threatening the economy’s stability. Rory, ‘let’s hope’ is a wonderful sentiment, but look at the actual balance of power in the world, and please for the sake of realpolitik, reassess what’s feasible by way of reform. That’s why ‘keep the oil in the soil’ is such an important innovation in progressive movement strategy. To comrade Alleman, would you offer your critique to Alaskan enviros who have done such a good job at preventing tundra drilling, or women in the Niger Delta, or the Oilwatch NGO network, or the Ecuadorian government, or Norwegian and Canadian activists who are together leading the way? They’d have every right to tell *you* to fix the demand-side by changing your (our) hedonistic consumption patterns and sorting out power relations so that we get an economy that isn’t addicted to fossil fuels…

By: Rory Williams

Rory Williams — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:45 +0000

I have argued that if we want to change the way the capitalist economy impacts communities, that’s great – but it’s a separate discussion from the one about whether carbon trading is a useful strategy for reducing emissions. I agree with Bond that the carbon market hasn’t worked so far, but that doesn’t mean it can’t play a role. Let’s hope the current series of negotiations beginning in Bali will produce a more robust set of mechanisms.

By: Andreas

Andreas — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:17:52 +0000

Good point, I guess – it’s a long standing tradition among the left to moan and criticise without coming up with positive alternatives. Having said that, I think you’ll find that both Bond and Monbiot throughout their work do, in fact, suggest practical alternatives…

Also, to suggest that we should keep things the way they are to sustain “the economy and jobs” is not necessarily a more pro-active stance, since it’s the very “economy” and the back-breaking and mind-numbing “jobs” that continue to kill thousands of humans and stop millions from developing to their full potential every day.

Best,
A

By: alleman

alleman — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:47:02 +0000

Carbon trading is probably a scam. But it is always disappointing to me when green activists say things like we should leave fossil fuels in the ground – and then not even attempt to say how we can do that without destroying the economy and jobs.